You win. 

Rabbi Alan is back on the show, and he's talking Midrash, which is an expansive way of viewing the Scriptures that will most likely shatter your brains (in the very best way possible). 

If you're new to the podcast, Rabbi Alan is one of my mentors - and one of the greatest influences in my life as far as how I see God and especially how I read the Bible. He's funny, brilliant, and he's been on the podcast six times, so he's no slouch. I love him and you will, too. 

And hey, I'm doing a LIVE PODCAST on Friday night, August 10th at Art House North in St. Paul, where I'll be taking the concepts we talked about in this episode even further, so grab your tickets soon. I'll be joined by my friend Shawn Smucker, author of The Day the Angels Fell and the follow-up that just came out, The Edge of Over There. I'll also be joined by my friends Tov Music (Steve and Heidi Haines), who are finishing up their first studio record, and it's some of the best music I've heard in a very long. 

Enjoy the podcast then go grab those tickets! 

In it together. 


Jen Hatmaker is hilarious. And really, really courageous. I unabashedly love her. 

We talked about her writing, the Enneagram (of course), and her courageous journey in and out of the evangelical subculture. 

What else can I say? It's Jen Hatmaker! 



Aundi Kobler is a therapist who specializes in helping people overcome trauma, especially in helping people understand how trauma is stored in the body differently than other memories. 

"According to leading researchers like Bessel van der Kolk and Peter Levine," Kolber writes, "trauma occurs when a person’s natural threat response is activated in their body, but their ability to cope becomes overwhelmed and ultimately stuck in a hyper/hypo vigilant mode. Thus, the traumatic event(s) become “stuck” in a person’s body instead of being stored as a normal memory. This inability to properly integrate the event into the narrative of their life is what results in symptoms such as flashbacks, disturbing thoughts, physical ailments or emotional volatility." 

This was such a fascinating conversation - both in terms of understanding bigger traumatic experiences but also smaller ones, which might happen several times in a given day. It was also really helpful for those of us who are trying to support someone who has been through a significant trauma. 

Enjoy the podcast!

You can get in touch with Aundi by checking out her website, following her on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook, and also by reading her published articles below:

Relevant Magazine: 3 Ways to Support Someone Recovering From Trauma

When the Wound is Healing

Huffington Post: Learning to Celebrate in the Middle of Pain


The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk 


Jamie Wright is a writer and speaker best known for her snarky faith and lifestyle blog, Jamie the Very Worst Missionary. She recently published her first book, The Very Worst Missionary: A Memoir or Whatever. It's gorgeous, raw, hilarious, and deeply moving. 

If you're losing your faith, leaving a religious system that no longer works, or if you can no longer pretend that you believe what you actually do not believe, you're going to love Jamie's book and also this conversation. 

You can find out more about Jamie here, and you can also follow her on TwitterInstagram, and Facebook



When we're talking about race, diversity, inclusion, and white supremacy, language really matters.

In this episode, I interviewed Daniel Hill, author of the fabulous new book White Awake: An Honest Look at What it Means to be White. One of the most helpful distinctions he draws out is the importance of understanding the narrative of racial difference. Race is a social construct created by human beings to assign different levels of human value onto people on the basis of differences. This profoundly evil construct is what enabled slavery. It enabled White Christians in the south to see no problem in watching a black man get lynched at the same park where they were enjoying their church picnic. 

Daniel is the pastor of River City Community Church, a vibrant, multi-ethnic church in the Humboldt Park neighborhood of Chicago, and he's also the author of 10:10 Life to the Fullest. You can also connect with Daniel on Twitter



Micha Boyett is the author of Found: A Story of Questions, Grace, & Everyday Prayer. She's also a blogger, wife and mom with a Master of Fine Arts in Poetry. Oh - and she's a former youth pastor. I met Micha at the Festival of Faith and Writing last spring, and after talking with her just once, I knew I had to have her on the podcast. 

We talked about a lot of things, but what I found most fascinating was how she reframed motherhood as monastical - instead of just doing the daily grind of diapers, bottles, playdates, and losing yourself completely, she began to see it as a way of approaching God through prayer.

I loved our conversation so much that we didn't even get to the main thing I wanted to talk to her about in the first place, so we're trying to schedule a part 2 with Micha. I wanted to talk to her about her youngest son, Ace (which is the BEST name ever) because he has Down Syndrome. Micha is trying to change the cultural conversation about what it's like to have children with Down Syndrome, so she and two other moms who also have kids with Down Syndrome have a killer new podcast called The Lucky Few in which they talk all about it - so check it out! 

You can read Micha's writing on her blog, and you can also connect with her on FacebookTwitter & Instagram



Karen Gonzalez is an advocate and an ally for immigrants and refugees. She works with World Relief, a nonprofit which helps immigrants and refugees navigate their way through the difficult waters of living in the United States.

We talked all about the challenges that immigrants and refugees face these days in the U.S., we talked about the recent family separation crisis facing immigrants, and we talked about ways that we can get involved to promote change. 

I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. 

Karen's new book is coming out next spring, so make sure to keep an eye out for it. I can't wait to read it. 



Resources we talked about: 

Fact Sheet about Families Being Separated at the Border

Love Undocumented

Welcoming the Stranger

How to find out which Congressperson you should call 

World Relief


Get in touch with Karen:





Liz Ditty is a speaker and writer trained through Sustainable Faith as a spiritual director. She loves encouraging others who have heard the wrong story about God to take their questions and hurts straight to God. She's a regular teacher at Westgate Church in the Silicon Valley and lives with her husband and two children in San Jose. 

Liz's new book, God's Many Voices is available for pre-order, and you can get in touch with Liz on her website



For this week's episode, I did something I have never done before (at least I can't remember doing it) - I am replaying a sermon that I recently preached. 

It's called Life on Trial, and in it, I imagine that the biblical concept of "eternal life" is on trial. What does it mean? Who gets to define it? What does Christianity say about it and what does Jesus say about it? And why are those two answers different? 

Hope you enjoy this, my friends. 

If you'd like to hear other sermons from our church, go here


Sonder is the realization that each random passerby is living a life as vivid and complex as your own. 

Sonderlust is the realization that you are envious of those random passersby because you assume that they are living better lives than you are. 

It is also the name of one of my favorite podcasts, hosted by today's guest, my new best friend Sarah Heath. She's a pastor, a speaker who travels all over the United States, and she wrote a great book called What's Your StorySonderlust the Podcast explores the journey Sarah is taking after accepting a challenge from her best guy friend John: A year of figuring out exactly how it is she wants to live her life. John gave Sarah four unique challenges, all of which she explores episode-by-episode. 

  • You have to love your job.
  • You need to go on dates.
  • You have to love where you live.
  • You must find friends outside of your work circle. 

I loved my conversation with Sarah - she's funny, honest, and wise. Take a listen and then go check out her podcast, but it's a serial podcast, so you have to start with episode one.

You can follow Sarah on Instagram, Twitter, or by checking out her website



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